Episode 85: Formula E and the race towards a more sustainable sporting future
- 09 November 2023
Using high performance to drive purpose
This podcast will:
- Examine how innovative brand values can attract and retain customers
- Explore the secrets of cracking a crowded market
- Show how a strong brand can foster wider sustainability
Sophie Peterson 00:03
Welcome to the CIM Marketing Podcast. The contents and views expressed by individuals in the CIM Marketing Podcast are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the companies they work for. We hope you enjoy the episode.
Ben Walker 00:17
Hello, everybody and welcome to this CIM Marketing Podcast. And today we are with a very exciting guest from the sporting world. Mr. Henry Chilcott, who's Chief Marketing Officer of Formula E, the all electric motorsport championship that many of you will be familiar with, because Henry was the subject of our profile interview in issue for a catalyst 2022. And he is here, just about to go to Valencia to begin pre season testing for Formula E. So on your breakfast schedule, Henry, thank you for joining us. Can you tell us a little bit more about this exciting sport.
Henry Chilcott 00:58
Firstly, thanks very much for the invite. It's great to be here. Excited always to tell more people about our great sport. So I like to start at the top right, so we're all electric racing series, single seater. So that means a driver is sitting right at the centre of the car open wheel. So similar to what you'd expect from Formula One. And we race all around the globe, we race in city centres. So as much as possible, we want to bring the racing to the people in the streets of these iconic cities around the world. So cities as broad and far reaching is obviously London itself, but through to Berlin, Monaco, Jakarta, we're going to Tokyo this year, Cape Town last year, New York City in the past, we're going over to Portland, so very, very broad number of races across a rich calendar. And I guess the final thing I'd say on it is we have an extraordinary group of manufacturers at the centre of our sports. So in my time at Formula E, we work with Porsche, McLaren, we also have Neo from China, we have Mahindra from India, Jaguar from the United Kingdom. So a very rich group of of exciting manufacturers who use our platform to demonstrate just what electric vehicles are capable of.
Ben Walker 02:11
But demonstrating what electric vehicles are capable of this is an important part of it, isn't it? We're seeing in this sort of consumer market move towards electric vehicles, sometimes we need to demonstrate what the electric vehicle can do. And we're looking at the zenith, the top end. How did it come about then? Was it it? Was it that you were driven by a sort of sustainability drive and energy efficient to drive a new energy drive, if you like? Or was it that you were a Formula One fan and thought we could do this with all electric cars?
Henry Chilcott 02:37
It's a really good question. And I joined formula E, I actually was in Formula One size at McLaren Formula One team for four years before joining Formula E in back in 2020. So if I start by saying how did formula E's come to be, it was an idea hatched by John Todt who was the president of the FIA at the time, and Alejandro Agag. And they came up with this idea to create a an electric world motorsport series. And at the time, you've got to remember back then, in 2011, when they were thinking about this idea, electric vehicles were nowhere it was it's take your mind back to that time, that the general perception of electric vehicles, what they were milk floats, they weren't capable of great levels of performance. So the idea of creating a high end racing series at the time, a lot of people thought it was for the birds, right. So what's really interesting is, though, if you actually if you think about the combination of high performance and sustainability, is the world didn't need another motorsport series, right. So back in those days, it didn't need another motorsport series. There's plenty of motorsport out there and plenty of single seater motorsport out there. But you could also argue the world that needed another kind of climate action group. But what was clever about this coming together was that it could bring those two things together and light up stories and innovation around greener technologies and electric vehicle performance in a way which is much more compelling. So it's a really noble story that the shift to electric vehicles because it's one of the greatest contributors of, of co2 emissions, and therefore, this mission of the organisation the purpose it was founded on was to accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles in the fight against climate change. So it had a noble purpose, but at its heart, the vehicle that allowed it to gain momentum and worldwide acclaim is of course the sport.
Henry Chilcott 03:12
It's interesting, isn't it? There's almost three different ways you could mark it Formula E, you could market it as sort of sustainability first and say its sustainability with sport. You could market it is a sort of its sport with sustainability. Or you could mark it is just sport. Which of those three is it?
Henry Chilcott 04:48
So it's a great question. And one of the first that I tackled when I when I came here because fundamentally, it my job is to grow this sport. So to bring in to 10s of millions of fans around the world, hundreds of millions of fans around the world, and people tune in to watch us for entertainment. So fundamentally, the doorway into our sport for the vast majority of people is the entertainment value that it provides. And we all know there's very deep and rich competition in motorsport in sport, more broadly, and indeed, everything through to the consoles our kids spent so much time on so. So there's a huge amount of competition. So fundamentally, we are a sport. We're a sport born of a purpose. So our right to exist is predicated on us being electric. As I said earlier, the world didn't need another motor sport, the gateway that people come into our sport 99% of the time is, wow, have you seen the drama, the number of overtakes the excitement is playing out on these tracks all around the world. The reason people stay in and develop a deeper advocacy for the sport is the positive impact that we have on the world. And what's interesting is the fans that we attract to the sport, tend to be younger, more gender balanced and, and care about the planet more. So I'm not saying that they're tuning into us because we're saving the planet, but they love us for the fact that we're doing that. And of course, the the partners that we attract, recognise that these are people that are going to spend money, more money on products and services that have a positive impact on the on the planet. So it's an alchemy of both. But fundamentally, if we're not great sport, we're not going to have any fans.
Ben Walker 06:26
It's a great sport with sustainability and advantage, which is an interesting combination, a great, great fusion, I think of two, as you say two different dynamics. For those people who haven't seen it, it is on Channel Four, it's free to watch. For those people want to watch it. It's starting again, next year in the new year. But for those people who haven't yet caught up with Formula E, how does it compare as a sport, actually, to Formula One?
Henry Chilcott 06:52
So yeah, so it's, it's interesting, like Formula E is the name. So as soon as you do that, it's the immediate comparison is the Formula One. And actually, it's similar in many ways, but very different in many ways as well. So if I'm going to set out the obvious separation is we are 100% Electric, whereas Formula One is, it would describe itself as hybrid, but 95% is combustion. Both of them are FIA World Championships. So that's a stamp of authority that we're FIA World Championship. We have a car which is designed and built by Formula E and the FIA. So that's an interesting point. So the car is designed by us everything that makes that car move, that the powertrain which is basically the electric motors and everything, internal gearbox, etc, and the software that manages the transfer of the of the energy into power driving it, that is that is developed by the manufacturers. So the racing team have a consistent car. But the differentiator is, of course, everything that makes it move. So the electric motor, the suspension, or those kind of aspects, the software, and of course, the driver. And what's interesting about that is it means that the racing is closer, there is less chance of there being a runaway leader in the championship, as we're seeing, for example, in f1, at the moment with Max Verstappen, who who clinched the title, I think, you know, two thirds of the way through the season. So our racing, that and this is where I think the big difference from a fan perspective cards is that we've had eight different winners over nine seasons. Wow. We've had, if I just take Monaco, we had, I think it was 116 overtakes in on the streets of Monaco. Yeah, I think F1 in 21 had like one overtake because the cars are big, and not designed for that type of race. They've got they've kind of outgrown the race, whereas our cars are designed, they're smaller, so they're smaller cars, and therefore a more nimble and able to overtake them those tight circuits. So we have a form of racing, which is, it's tighter, it's more competitive, there's more overtakes and more drama. Now Formula One I might add, as a great brand of racing as well. I am a Formula One fan I I'm a remain a fan of McLaren from my time there. And it's a it's a fantastic spectacle. But Formula E is a very different, more compact, the races tend to be 45 minutes to an hour. And it all happens on one day. So we have it all on one day, we have a recent one day. So there's similarities as we say, but also quite a lot of differences.
Ben Walker 09:32
I think what people will take from that is the level of competitiveness, it is a different model that you're providing effectively, we are providing this chassis, if these things are all identical on the technology inside them is what differentiates one constructor from a different constructor. And that in of itself is helping advanced the technology that is going into the consumer market, is it not? So, your your role as a marketer is also to facilitate and enable the development of the technology some deg
Henry Chilcott 10:05
That's true. And and you know, it is a marketing platform and a fan platform, right. So my job isn't just about attracting fans, it's also about creating a platform, which is going to attract and retain incredible manufacturers. So we talked about these manufacturers earlier, they're in this championship, on the basis of visibility, ultimately to help them burnish their brand reputation and the perception of them at being at the cutting edge of electric vehicle technology and performance. So we have to create a platform which is powerful for our manufacturers, because an ultimately a sporting format, which is powerful for our fans. But of course, you can't have a straight sporting format. Unless you've got great manufacturers, the fans want to see McLaren going toe to toe with Porsche, which I think last happened in in open wheel motorsport back in the back in the 60s, right. So we've brought these great teams back together to the table next to each other. But the really interesting thing from a again, as someone who came from Formula One, where you have a there's a design and envelope for the car, and then every team goes off and builds their own car, I think it's like 18,000 components in a Formula One car, and by the end of the season, 90% of those components are new. So they're constantly evolving. That was a powerful story. When I was at Formula One, I remember telling that story. To many people, as I was trying to bring new partners into the platform. What's interesting is when I came to Formula E, that was a disaster of a story. That is reverse amount of wasted carbon in pursuit of performance. And the if there was a kind of equation that represents Formula E kind of formula for Formula E is that we show the world that high performance and sustainability can powerfully coexist. So it's not performance at any cost. It has to be responsible performance. And that is, I guess, what is it right at the core of our championship and also our sport and also attention within our sport. So I could tell you that we have a very limited number, we have one tire compound across a race weekend. So one tire come rain or shine. That is one tire. Now we do that because in other motorsports unnamed, you get through a huge amount of tires. That is, that's a huge amount of freight to be carrying around the world, which burns a lot of carbon. But also those tires themselves are often us for a very short amount of time and then and then then then discarded. So we have one tire compound across a whole weekend. That tire compound is the same tire compound made by handbook for our championship that you will find on road cars. So it's not made specifically for us. It is a road car, tire compound. And in every part that is open for development within that car. So we said that it's it's built, the chassis is built by us. But everything, as you said on the inside, the technology is driven by the by the teams, everything that is open for the teams and manufacturers to develop, has the opportunity to trickle down to the road car. So there is no expensive aero programme where you're spending 10s of millions of pounds in the pursuit of an extra 10th of a second of a lap time that has zero relevance to to road cars, all of that is stripped out of Formula E, everything that the manufacturer spend money on to drive comps on the track can aid the road car, so we have a battery in the car. And the battery is limited in terms of the number of amount of energy we have. So the car has to be a lethally efficient machine, because you can't have too big of battery because that's too heavy and you have a heavy race car. So we have a race car that is that is designed that only has 60% of the energy it requires to complete the race at the beginning of the race. So during the race, the Gen three race car, which we launched this year 40% of the energy that it consumed in the race it generates during the race. Wow. So if you think about that for a moment, that's a that's a power station on wheels, that is a that is a car that is generating its own power 40% The same power. Now if you think about the implications of what that could trickle down in terms of road cars and their efficiency, it already happens. Anyone who has an electric car, or even a hybrid car understands the idea of the energy going back into the battery being harvested. That's a great example of where the stuff that we're developing on the track can obviously trickle down to the road car programmes.
Ben Walker 14:14
It's is a great development story, great technology development story. But it's also a great marketing story for the teams for the marks because they can then say, as used in Formula read the story of the electric vehicle is its image has gone from milkflow to Tesla in a very, very short space of time that people have realised that this thing is a high performance way of driving motor car. And if you're able to say, as a mark as a Porsche, as a McLaren, saying that this technology can be used in road vehicles. It's a great way of marketing to the home user, that this car is about performance. It's not just about sustainability. It's about performance with sustainability.
Henry Chilcott 14:55
Exactly. And it's a balancing act right because the general perception in people's minds driven by by Formula One over 70 years is the pursuit of performance. It is a it's all about performance and only cost now they're obviously doing a job now to find ways to be more sustainable, of course, as any sport has to, but fundamentally that that's a tension for them because we were conceived at the beginning to be a balance of sustainability and high performance, whereas Of course, they're having to rein back some of that performance in order to be more sustainable. So as a for instance, if I go back to the the tire point point, if we put slick tires on the exact same car, in Monaco, we could be four seconds, four seconds, a lap faster, four seconds, that's huge, huge amount. So so so Formula One team will spend 10s of millions of pounds to try and shave a few hundreds of a second of her lap time, we could change the tires, but we choose not to because of the environmental impact. Likewise, here's another interesting kind of Area Development as we're developing out the battery technology at the front of the car. So we have two two power trains, we have a front powertrain and a rear powertrain. So a front motor and a rear motor. The front motor at the moment is is designed for only for re-gen. So it is designed to capture the kinetic energy and put it back into the battery. We're not even using repulsion yet we could do but so far, we haven't started to switch that up. If we switch that on the car will go even more fast. The acceleration we anticipate will break two seconds in 0-60 miles per hour, for one car, 2.6 seconds. So that's in our gift to switch that motor on. Now obviously, if we switch that on, it's going to be more power hungry, and therefore we have to balance the battery, etc. But that's the interesting construct. We've got the sporting product, we've got the performance, we've got sustainability story, snd we've got the fans. We've got to think about how can we create the most compelling sport in a way which is sustainable, which is going to excite our fans, but also shines a light on the most powerful kind of new technologies in development. So it's a balancing act between the three which we need to constantly kind of push.
Henry Chilcott 15:04
You're still getting about 200 mile per hour top speed out of these things, aren't you? And then what about a three second not 0-60? Something like that, even when
Henry Chilcott 17:15
it's 2.8 At the moment, and yeah, the maximum theoretical speed is 200 miles per hour. I say theoretical because because we were on street circuits, we haven't yet hit that on a on a street circuit. Obviously, if we've just went to a runway, that would be a massive the performance right now is great. But what I find exciting and energising is the fact that the development curve with EVs is incredibly steep. Yeah, and we have even in the package that we have, at the moment, the car that we have, at the moment, we have the ability to go for six that faster. If we wanted to, we have the ability to turn on the front powertrain, which would of course make the car four wheel drive and more power going through the front axle, which could get us to accelerate sub two seconds, nought to 60. Yet at the moment, we're not just pressing all those buttons. And the reason for that, which is quite counterintuitive. But some of that came from f1, when I first joined here is that what we prioritise above everything is that is the spectacle. Ultimately, the most interesting race isn't necessarily cars going really, really fast. In circles chasing each other, what makes really, really exciting racing is Jeopardy risk overtakes strategic calls, and moments where, you know, underdogs can come through, or champions can filter all that all those great stories. So we design the sport and we make these decisions, yes, to ensure that we've always got a close eye on the sustainability narrative, but also to make sure that it's going to be the most dramatic and exciting race.
Ben Walker 18:40
There's a focus on racing rather than raw speed, although it's still the raw speed is, is pretty good.
Sophie Peterson 18:47
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Ben Walker 18:59
F1 is a competitor. I mean, let's be honest, a lot of your fans are also F1 fans, but nevertheless, F1 is a competitor. And as that is trying to be more sustainable, and it is trying to be more sustainable. Many will say it's got a long way to go before it can call itself anything like sustainable, but it is making steps to become more sustainable. Does that chip away at your USP?
Henry Chilcott 19:25
Well, interestingly, so So as I said at the top, the founding purpose of Formula E was to accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles in the fight against climate change. We broaden that when I joined three years ago. And it's now articulated as accelerating sustainable human progress through the power of electric racing. So if that's our purpose, right at the top, the big lofty purpose, it follows that it can't, it can't be enough for us just to do a good job within our world. We need to inspire and support others to to that end so. So we hit a real milestone next year. So next year we will be net zero carbon for 10 years. So not net zero carbon in 10 years or going forward from today, all the way back to our first race. So 10 years ago, what we're going to potentially go to the market with next year is how can we encourage other motorsports or sports to accelerate their progress towards great sustainability and ultimately, carbon neutrality? And what's interesting is, if I asked you before we had this conversation, if I asked anyone, what do you think the first sport in the world to be net zero carbon would be, it would probably take quite a long time for you to get to a motorsport. Yeah. That that would be the sport that was netzero carbon, yet, we've achieved that because and to be fair, to us, it's easier, we're not a legacy sport we were founded with that principle in in place. So we've measured every ounce of carbon we've created from the very beginning. And against the full un endorsed programme, we measure, we reduce that which we can across. And that's an ongoing process. And we have signed up to science based targets, which commits us to a further 45% reduction in carbon from season 5, to season 10. So really aggressive targets. So there's measure there's reduced, and then there's offset that which we can't reduce. And the way we offset is through programmes all around the world, which could be for example, we do work with UNICEF, there's a school just outside Mexico City where we've done a rainwater capture project, which is bringing water to schools, which unbelievably, a huge number of schools in Mexico City don't have access to clean water and in the schools. So we do these carbon credit credit schemes around the world, we want to encourage others to be better, I can see a world where we invite other sports to come to see our sport and learn and understand from a pioneer in this space. But fundamentally, the Formula One fan does not want from the one to go electric. Ultimately, all we can do is focus on on our area of the world. So So if I look forward to let's say, 10 years time, it's going to be fascinating to see how this all plays out. So we've just seen the UK Government push back from 2030 to 2035, the production of pure combustion, the availability of production of combustion vehicles, in the United Kingdom, there are other areas in Europe, which are being much more aggressive with that and and the US of course, will will follow and it will take a bit more time. But there will come a point where the pressure will become too great. And the manufacturers therefore will be investing all their money in electric power trains. And therefore it's hard to see how a manufacturer is going to invest hundreds of millions of pounds into technologies, which ultimately no longer keeping pace with their road car business. So it will be interesting. And again, I don't have a crystal ball. But all I can say is we are positioned well for where the future is going in terms of electric power trains. But I do also say going back to what I said at the beginning is we take nothing for granted. And fundamentally people don't tune in for us, because we're saving the world they tune in for us because we're creating compelling sports. So we never think that because the world is going electric therefore Formula E inherits the earth, that's just not the way the world works, we have to focus on creating compelling dramatic sports that people tune into. And then the added benefit of our purposes is the thing that kind of comes behind it.
Ben Walker 23:32
But by producing that compelling, entertaining sport, you're showing other sports, not just F1 other sports, not just other motorsports other sports generally that actually being sustainable in sport is possible to create a very high performance, high octane high entertainment product, while being sustainable, we focused a little bit too much perhaps on F1. But you know, football is not a sustainable sport. The actual playing of the game doesn't use any carbon emissions, but going around the world for World Cups, and so on and so forth, is a you know, kind of big, big carbon penalty and some statistics provided to me before this shows that the last three World Cups have generated 2.2 to 2.8 million tonnes of carbon per World Cup. Now that is a huge amount. Football is promising to change its ways to some degree. Do you see that this is this is a start of a general trend in the sporting world to become more sustainable, you know, blah, having these exemplars like for me, it's pushing other sports to do likewise.
Henry Chilcott 24:41
I think so. I mean, we should be raising the bar and if a motorsport could be net zero carbon for 10 years, then surely anyone can get that right. And of course, the tension there, of course, it's motorsport. Most of motorsports obviously create carbon in the propulsion of their cars, right Whereas in football, that doesn't happen in in many sports, that doesn't happen, the carbon is being created from, in many cases, the travel. And so and then there are a long tail of things that they can do in order to be more efficient and get on that train towards carbon neutrality. Everything down to food options serves at stadia and being plugged into the green grid to power those stadia, etc, etc. So, so there are many, many levers that will pull up, I genuinely believe that the most clubs Federation's are already on this journey. That's because the demand from the fans is such that it's not a can you it's a demand, it's absolute necessity. I think what we're more talking about is the speed of this transition. Yeah. And that's kind of a core driver for us, which is we're wanting to accelerate sustainable human progress. It's not about saying we're going to get there. So So our challenge to other sports is if they're going, you know, we're going to be carbon neutral 2030 2040. Our challenge is not, you know, that you're being whether you're whether or not you're going carbon neutral, it's about how quickly you're going to get there. And beyond that, what's the legacy impact that that's going to have on the world. So we too, let's be honest, there's Formula E, we fly around the world, right. So we try as much as possible to, to take our cars around the world through sea freight, obviously, as I said earlier, we manage the fleet of cars. So Formula E centrally managed the freight of the cars all around the world, which is more efficient than individual teams or doing it separately. So that is far more efficient. And therefore we can control the calendar and what goes by sea freight versus air freight, every, of course, far more carbon intensive. So there are many levers that we that we can pull. But we need to inspire more clubs a bit more pressure on more clubs and championships to go faster. Because fundamentally, it is easier we recognise as as a new sport, but we're 10 years next year, founded on the principles of sustainability, it's not enough for us to just throw rocks at people who have been around for 70 years, 100 years, because they have to make a big shift. It's the same with businesses, like businesses have legacy processes, it's harder to change from a different model. But we need to help support that that transition, and inspire and create greater sense of pressure within fanbases to demand that pace of change.
Ben Walker 27:25
It's like building a house isn't it? Most builders will tell you it's much harder to retrofit a house into a new design than just knock it down and start again. Are there any other sports that you consider exemplars in this stuff?
Henry Chilcott 27:38
I should start really with our founder Alejandro Agag he's he's created he's he's one of those serial entrepreneurs who somehow I don't know full time he he had a time when you think he couldn't be any more busy suddenly comes up with something else to do. So he's created after Formula E extremely, which is a off road electric, recent series. And its calendar is dictated by areas that are facing real climate crises of different types. So they they take electric off road racing to, to bring awareness to those those areas and and create legacy programmes within those areas. So again, that's maybe three years, three seasons in now. So that's even got that's got all the learning from Formula E taking into into a new programme. He's also launching next year E1, which is a electric powerboat racing series. So again, compounding all of that learning into into electrifying power boats and electron the oceans. So there's a immediate world where I can see a huge amount of expertise garnered within Formula One being applied to other forms of motorsport. And then of course, SailGP, I guess another leading light in the area of sustainability, again, probably a more intuitive sport in that regard, because of course, it's powered by the wind, and therefore it makes more intuitive sense than then probably a motor sport. And also, I think it's probably also worth mentioning that sustainability, we can often go immediately and most of this conversation has been focused on environmental sustainability. The definition of sustainability is of course, far broader, and also applies to social progress, etc. So I think there's a lot of great work that's happening within the Premier League at the moment with the work that they're doing around driving that agenda. I think they've made huge leaps over the last five years in all sorts of areas of diversity, equality, inclusion. So I think it's also important to recognise that it's not just about the environment, it's how can sport as a often global and highly emotive and inspiring platform, use its reach to to create positive impact in the world. And of course, environment is a very key pillar of that and that's a key focus for us, but of course there are there are many other areas that sport can create was the impact.
Ben Walker 30:01
Henry, we've raced through this session excuse the pun. But before you go, what do you think is going to be the key trends that sports fans are going to see, in the world of general sustainability, overall sustainability in the next two or three years haven't maybe happened yet in sports.
Henry Chilcott 30:16
I think, you know, I think the the social progress will continue to be a key plank of motorsports because of course, when we talk about, let's say, the grass based sports, versus versus motorsport, there's a lot of work that can be done in that space, like football has, it's so huge. And of course, it's spread across multiple leagues around the world versus Formula E, one league same with Formula One, but the impact and the scale and the reach and the passion within the football space, I think we can expect to see more clubs, maturing in their focus to drive positive social impact. I think we're seeing some really good encouraging movements in gender equality within football. I don't know about you and your viewers, but the World Cup that we've just seen, is just accelerated engagement with women's football to a level that had been previously kind of unsurpassed. So that's fantastic to see, I've got a daughter, I have a one year old daughter, so brilliant, again, personally, for me to see that that we're seeing that at a at an international level. But we're also seeing that a club level, which is brilliant. So the engagement with women's sport, and in particular, with women's football, I think is another great demonstration of driving social progress and equality. So I think we're going to see more of that. And I think, crucially more value coming from that. So ultimately, all of these agendas, they accelerate in their power, directly connected to the revenues that they drive. So fundamentally, the more viewers can get watching women's football, the more money that's going to pour in and therefore the more it's going to scale, the better distribution it's going to get. And it becomes a kind of Phoenix effect. So in the same way as that's a big drive for us with Formula E growing our distribution, growing outreach, growing our fan base, I think we're going to see that in women's football and more broadly across other forms of female engagement within sports. So we're driving that with our Fia, girls on track platform within Formula E. So I think we're going to see more of that. And then on the environmental side, stadia green stadia, using environmental progress as a lens through which decisions are made thinking about how we can look at every single aspect of what we do to create a more positive, or limit the negative impact on environment, I think we're seeing it to the next time you go to a football stadium, just look around you at the decisions that are being made to kind of advanced that because there are big levers we can pull. And then there's 1000, small levers we can pull and it's in pulling those 1000 small levers as well as the big levers that we're going to make the progress we need to see.
Henry Chilcott 31:01
In sport as in life, create a great product that people find fantastic. Get that eyeballs on that product, get that buy in and then use that buy in as an agent for change. Fantastic message from Henry Chilcott CMO at Formula E. Henry has been an amazing show. Thanks for your attendance. Thanks for your time and your insights. I hop you join us again on the podcast. It's been great having you thank you very much.
Henry Chilcott 33:19
Thanks for your time.
Sophie Peterson 33:21
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