Engineering the next era of hybrid experiences

Kelly Eagle  0:00  
It's about the whole experience ecosystem. It's not just one moment in the funnel. It's about being connected to a bigger picture. With audiences being so tech savvy, it's actually easier than ever to carry people from a really big, momentous moment, something that is, guideline, spectacular, all the way through to an immersive space where you've got something super simple, like a QR code that prompts your audience to book a test drive or start a free trial or even just sharing through social.

Ben Walker  0:38  
Hello everybody, and welcome to the CIM marketing podcast, and today we are going to be discussing immersive experiences in marketing. And none better to discuss this than our special guest Kelly Eagle, who is managing partner at pixel artworks. How are you? Kelly? Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Tell us a little bit more about pixel artworks then Kelly and

Kelly Eagle  1:01  
what you do pixel artworks? Well, we're all about creating worlds beyond spectacle, which means we want to inspire and bring to life transformative experiences pushing the boundaries of technology. We ultimately believe the true value of our immersive experiences lies in human shifts and the behaviours they create for our audiences.

Ben Walker  1:20  
You're walking into sort of outer nets in the West End. Or, yeah, exactly that

Kelly Eagle  1:25  
immersive is quite overused word, really, but it's spatial storytelling. It's being in a environment, being surrounded by storytelling content, experiences, really, anything that gives an audience a feeling, all that emotion that tells a story.

Ben Walker  1:42  
And what sort of technologies can we expect to see from pixel and also your competitors and colleagues? You know, what sort of technology are the emerging things, the cutting edge, if you like, that you're using today?

Kelly Eagle  1:55  
Well, technology is constantly evolving, and it's actually better and better all the time. So the type of technology we use might be intelligent lighting design, LED screens, big projection mapping, thinking about layering with augmented reality, mixed reality, digital interactivity. There's lots and lots of ways you can use technology to create those storytelling moments. And really the idea is in creative driving, the main factor. What's really exciting is how you layer this technology. You're bringing it to life with different tech disciplines, so creating something more special, something really immersive, something really meaningful for that audience.

Ben Walker  2:32  
That's interesting. What do you think have been the biggest transformative advances in recent times for audiences in this space?

Kelly Eagle  2:40  
Yeah, it's a really good question. Well, for a while, a lot of immersive experiences, or experiences like this, were driven by these Instagram moments, so kind of almost selfie spaces, which is very surface level, focused on visual but very passive. And thankfully, we're seeing a massive shift at the moment where these storytelling spaces are becoming transformative. It's all about spatial storytelling, people wanting to feel something, to be taking on a journey, not just being captured in a photo. For me and for us, the real advances aren't in the technology, but it's just how it's being used to create something way more meaningful, something narrative led that actually shifts those behaviours. So that's

Ben Walker  3:24  
really interesting. So it's the innovation is not in what the technology can do, so much as how it is being used. The application of existing technology has changed and has presumably become enhanced in recent times, and certainly the work that you're doing, yeah, definitely.

Kelly Eagle  3:41  
I mean, should never be technology for technology's sake, it's always a story. First, what are you trying to tell? How do you want your audience to feel?

Ben Walker  3:48  
What does it do for your client, from a brand perspective, helping build their brand to sort of switch their marketing or redirect their marketing mix towards more immersion and less from traditional marketing channels,

Kelly Eagle  4:02  
I mentioned this idea about behaviour shifts, and I think for brands, what we want to do for them, and what immersive media does for them, is really take their audiences and put them in these wells, these brand worlds. So you're stepping into a world. You're kind of shifting perspectives, thinking about how people feel, shifting how they feel, shifting how they think, and ultimately shifting what they do next. And that brand loyalty that comes with being part of these immersive experiences and in these worlds.

Ben Walker  4:32  
So it's creating a connection with the brand, or at least a stronger connection than people might feel if it was through traditional means. Yeah, exactly

Kelly Eagle  4:41  
like it's all about that brand loyalty that we're building moments that are just remembered after the lights go out.

Ben Walker  4:47  
Who are you aiming for? Chiefly with this is it usually tend to be used at that sort of top of the funnel raising awareness piece, or is it also used in the middle of the funnel, actually, right to the bottom where you're trying to convert? Interested parties into customers?

Kelly Eagle  5:02  
Yeah, it's a really good question. It really can span the funnel, I'd say, as long as it's designed that way from the very start. It's about the whole experience ecosystem. It's not just one moment in the funnel. It's about being connected to a bigger picture. With audiences being so tech savvy, it's actually easier than ever to carry people from a really big, momentous moment, something that is guideline spectacular, all the way through to an immersive space where you've got something super simple, like a QR code that prompts your audience to book a test drive or start a free trial, or even just sharing through social

Ben Walker  5:37  
so some of it can be quite low level and basic, but still has that effect of increasing that sense of connection and grabbing the attention of the customer, because they are, in some way, no matter how rudimentary, interacting with it.

Kelly Eagle  5:49  
Yeah, exactly. I mean, really, it goes back to the creative it's if you understand your audience, and you've got the right insight, you can create something that that taps into that that audiences want to engage with. You're building that of that loyalty, you're building up that interaction,

Ben Walker  6:03  
certainly are. You do get the feeling from some of these more innovative, immersive campaigns, that people are getting a better sense of connection, and there is a better impact on in terms of marketing by using some of these ideas and technologies. However, we as marketers have to prove it. We have to prove return on investment. And you know, metrics aren't always our favourite thing to do or discuss, but nevertheless, they are necessary with some of this stuff. It's, you know, it's quite out there, it's cutting edge, it's, it's new. How on earth do you go about measuring it?

Kelly Eagle  6:38  
Yeah, measuring experience is a big one for the industry, but marketers that are really starting to understand how important it is, there are lots of ways that you can use metrics. So you know, you can look at engagement levels. You can look at things like footfall, dwell time, how long someone's been immersed in something that is fully immersive in that environment, thinking about using AR layers. So augmented reality is a really nice one within these experiences. One of the examples that one of our previous pieces of work with the butterfly Trail, which was live at the alternate we added a augmented reality layer, and this was an interactive layer. It was a chance for individuals to be able to have butterflies land on their hand and to play interactive games with butterflies, which worked as part of the bigger, wider, connected experience. You know, we have great statistics off the back of that two minutes average gameplay during that immersive experience. I think 97% of people actually made it all the way through to the final gameplay, which these statistics are absolutely brilliant, and it's great to have that data to back up these immersive experiences. But it's not easy. A lot of marketers struggle to be able to find tangible ROI.

Ben Walker  7:57  
So you've got clients coming to you and they're saying, you know, we like the idea of this. It's really cool. What's in it for us commercially, what's in it for us in terms of ROI, how do you have that conversation? Where do you start and finish those sorts of conversations?

Kelly Eagle  8:13  
Well, with every good campaign, it's worth thinking about what the key takeaways are. We actually have a lot of clients that come to us, and they they say they want to make, you know, almost French page news. They want to see something that's that's draw dropping, that's going to make them famous, that they can show internationally, that has global acclaim, and that's where some of our big Skyline work comes out of. Because really, what we're giving our clients is fame off the back of that, whereas some of our other especially the alternates or the experiences that you go into and use, we actually work with them with technology, for instance, heat mapping, looking at where people spend a lot of time in those experiences. There's a lot of footfall sensors, interactivity that can all be tracked. So it's worth every time working with our clients and what a engagement plan looks like, and what their core KPIs need to be, and then making sure that we're allowing for it as we design and deliver against the project.

Ben Walker  9:07  
It's interesting. Yeah, so I like this. Make me famous. Profile wise, some of this stuff is hugely impacted customers, people, humans, remembered it more than they would. Some of the traditional media that we're more used to in the industry,

Kelly Eagle  9:22  
yeah, creating immersive experiences, or building worlds for your audience to step into. The level of engagement, and the way you build these dynamic platforms creates incredible cut through compared to traditional media. Seeing a billboard or walking past a bus

Ben Walker  9:39  
shelter, it's amazing impacted stuff that makes you famous or makes your clients famous. You know it. People remember it. It is hugely memorable stuff. The worth of it is is clear to see, both qualitatively and quantitatively. But in order to keep ahead of the game, you've constantly got to be doing R and D. You've constantly got to be in. Innovating in your business. How do you balance that need with effective risk management?

Kelly Eagle  10:05  
For us, Innovation is key. It keeps us fresh. It also motivates our team. Internally, our staff love building something that's new, or pushing the boundaries with what you can do with technology or just tinkering and playing. Impresses our clients, we love working with brands who have the same vision of us. They want, you know, to push these boundaries and to create something that's really stand out. In general, we innovate in two different ways. We love to innovate as part of our project work where we can, and usually what that looks like is a one to two week short sprint, and we may do this as part of a project when we are testing out a theory or working with a client on a potential idea, and run these sprints in a discovery phase to see how that comes to life, and ultimately look at how that's going to be designed, going into a further design delivery phase. We also run innovation outside of our projects as well. So we have goals to innovate and ultimately provide a bit of a playground for our artists and technologists to explore, and often that involves them getting it wrong or tearing it up. But eventually we stumble across, you know, some real gold out there, and it's great for us, because then we can use it for our next client, and it's kind of prime and ready for the next immersive world or transformative project

Ben Walker  11:23  
we want to build. So that sort of sandbox stuff, that sort of, you know, testing and trialling and experimenting, it's sort of built into your business model. There is a recognition within the business that this needs to be an ongoing process, and not everything you're going to do is going to work. A lot of it won't work. But while you're constantly playing and experimenting, every so often you strike gold,

Kelly Eagle  11:43  
yeah, I mean, absolutely. And I mean we it is part of our business model. You know, the team definitely have goals and targets to hit X amount of innovations a year. So 100% it needs to be part and parcel of of what we do. And we just want to keep things fresh, and we always want to be moving forward. What about

Ben Walker  12:00  
customer interaction people outside the interaction with consumers? We're talking marketing, don't we these days, about, you know, helping, involving consumers, connecting consumers, letting them, sort of, you know, shape the narrative to some way. To what extent do you do that in your business? And what are the risks associated with that really

Kelly Eagle  12:21  
good question. So experiences should be designed with the brand message and the story in mind. Audiences should definitely have interactivity and control how they engage, and especially how deeply they engage, or their own consumer generated content. So for us, we design experiences, and we think it's well done when brand values do actually underpin all parts of the creative experience. So even when you've got your audience engaging and going a little bit off script, ultimately, it's part of that brand world, and it's aligned with that brand goal

Ben Walker  12:56  
and vision. How do you set the parameters of the guardrails so there is interaction, but they don't come outside of that vision. They then suddenly go off pieced.

Kelly Eagle  13:05  
So the creative team have this really nice analogy that I love. It's the swimmer, wader diver, and this is how we design for our audiences. So the audience is obviously considered at the very forefront of the brief thinking about the insights and ultimately the KPIs of a project. But then we consider some of the audience are going to want to just wade in the shallows. They're going to want to experience something. They're not going to get too involved with it, but they're going to maybe post something on social media. Yeah. So the next level of audience that we designed for is the swimmers, and these guys are the ones who get way more involved. They love the content. They'll interact with the touch points, they'll take all the photos, and they'll ultimately swim through the experience and actually really enjoy and have a deeper engagement level to those are the waders. But then the final level that we design to is the divers. We know that there are always divers out there that we need to consider. These are your kind of brand advocate, the audience members who are going to interact with every touch point, read every moment, want to download and take something home with them to tell their friends, post come back and visit the experience again. So it's worth whenever you create these experiences, thinking about, what do we want main values to be? How do we want people to feel when they come away from them? But then also, how are you counting for different levels of audiences, and how are you making sure that it's designed in a way where you're setting those guard rails, but you're also giving people what they want from something that's immersive.

Ben Walker  14:47  
It's absolutely fantastic, isn't it? The analogy of the wader swimmer and diver, I think lots of our audience will take that away. They'll probably steal that pausing their potential audience and. I was sitting listening to it, fascinated, but I was also thinking, it's pretty complicated, isn't it? Compared to slapping something up on a billboard, you accept there is going to be a degree of interactivity, probably from most of your audience, whether it's a little bit for the waders, you know, a decent amount for the swimmers, or a huge amount for your divers, when you're trying to create these immersive, interactive campaigns, you're aware of your different audiences. At some point, you're starting with a blank page, you've got to work out what your client wants, what does your technology allow you to do, and how can you serve these very different cohorts that you've just named? Can you give us a little bit of an insight into how those brainstorming sessions begin?

Kelly Eagle  15:51  
So everything should be about the idea, firstly the feeling, and then the creative. And then for us, it's about how technology can support that vision. As you say, live pixel technology is quite complicated. But actually, that's not where you should start in a brainstorm. It should be, what do we want our audience to feel? What is the lead creative that's going to take this forward? And one of my favourite ways to get a range of perspectives is, yeah, get a bunch of the team, put them all in one room and have an idea session. Our company, every single person is super creative, so a genius initial spark can actually come from anywhere. But then we do take those initial sparks further, and we put a team of specialists against them. So a creative director, a creative technologist, production managers, we actually build a team around those initial sparks to take that initial idea and actually build it into something that's going to be extraordinary.

Ben Walker  16:48  
I think this is really interesting, because I think what you didn't say, you know, you've the old phrase that you can tell more about sometimes, what people don't say than what they do say when you're describing the foundation of that before the creative director comes in before you sort of escalate it to specialists. What you didn't mention was the technology. You sound like you sat in a room, good old fashioned chin wag. What are the ideas here? Go on. Throw some ideas in the air. Bear in mind what you want your customer to feel, and all of those things that we always talk about in marketing. But throw those ideas in the air. You're not bounded in that initial process by what your technology currently allows. You're thinking about what do you want to do, and then you work the rest out later.

Kelly Eagle  17:28  
Definitely, it's 100% about how you build this shift in audience behaviours. It's you want to make people feel, you want to make people think. You want to make people do. How are we actually impacting those who are experiencing these immersive or transformative spaces, and how can we tell that story in the most effective, beautiful storytelling manner?

Ben Walker  17:53  
And when you do do that, and you've defined it, you've got your idea, you've worked out the process of the story and how you're going to tell it, how do you make sure that that creative idea becomes viable with the technology? What's the sort of next stage?

Kelly Eagle  18:06  
Well, we have a process ethos internally which and actually externally as well. It's kind of our five layers of immersive experiences. And this is something that the creative team came up with, and it's all about thinking. There's five main pillars that need to be considered as part of any proposal. So it's thinking about the craft, which is insight and creativity, and how you push imaginations and defy expectations. It's thinking about the story, which is all about the journey, the flow, how people move through a space, obviously, then I've mentioned the feeling and the audience. That's kind of the third that's really core followed that we think about the immersion the environment, how we're going to transform that space and everything between and what ends up being a canvas. And then for us, last of all is technology. So it's what is the innovation, how we implementing this, and how we pushing the lines of what's possible and combining all of our creativity with innovation. You asked about what kind of criteria we what we might use to see if an idea is viable and it's going to be successful. And I tend to go back to those five layers of experience, because if an idea doesn't meet the expectation and the standards laid out, then actually it won't hold its own, and we haven't worked hard enough.

Ben Walker  19:27  
Have you had it happen the other way, where a client comes to you, they've seen what you've done, they've looked at your portfolio, think, wow, pixel artworks can do all this. They've said to you, we know you've got the technology to deliver this. And you've looked at the campaign and you thought, well, we could deliver it, but it's not going to work. As far as a piece of marketing, have you ever rejected an idea because it's technically feasible, but in terms of marketing, it's a dud?

Kelly Eagle  19:50  
Yeah, we definitely have examples like this, and we have lots of clients that come to see us, and they're often quite wowed with the Tech. Technology and the experiences and seeing the skylines and they often want to hear how they can create something of the same impact. But we, as I said, we're not technology for technology's sake. If the audience experience isn't right for them and the creative storytelling doesn't fit, it doesn't matter how much tech and money and shiny toys you throw at an idea, it's not going to land. And we're here to create impactful, incredible experiences. So when we speak to our clients, we definitely remind them that it needs to start from the audience. It needs to start with purpose and a feeling needs to be there. Engagement comes from much more than just bright lights and lasers,

Ben Walker  20:44  
creativity, first, technology second, and not vice versa. Quite interesting. You know, there's an element of theatre in all this. Isn't there. And what I mean by that is that, you know, if you're doing a landmark installation, you mentioned the internet earlier, when the public, this is open to the public, you it is like a theatre show in so far as you know, once the curtains open, it's got to be right, right? You got to it's got to work. You got to be happy with it. How do you rehearse it? You know, how do you rehearse this stuff? How do you test it on a Monday before it goes live on Friday, or, you know, in April before it goes live in May.

Kelly Eagle  21:23  
So internally, we have a few different routes to test, and really the reason we test is, one, because we want our clients to see and understand and ultimately sign off the experience and be as excited as we are for it to go live. But two, because actually it's part of our internal review process. Like it's really important for our creative directors and the artists and the 3d design teams to actually see what they're building and understand how that comes to life in a environment. So in the example of the answer, we actually, in fact, all over the world. We anywhere we might go live, we tend to build a space in a 3d simulation, and we use a piece of software called disguise often, where we play back the content and we create what would be the environment in that space. And this is excellent, because you can fly around, you can move around on screen, you can have a look and see where your VIP audience might be sitting compared to what somebody in the back row of A event might feel, but also you can plug it into a VR headset. So one of our favourite things to do is have our clients come and visit us. We give them this VR headset, and before they've even seen their site built, or before their venue has even come to life. We're showing them in a 3d environment, where they can look around and visualise it in virtual reality. And that's super special, but also really important for process.

Ben Walker  22:51  
There's a great insight into how you do it. You know, you've got you've got a space, you've got a VR way of doing it in your own offices, before you have to deliver it outside in the public to the client. The fact that it begins with the creative spot. Notwithstanding, you know, it is, in most cases, a hugely technical and complex campaign. In many cases, what's the most challenging aspect of delivering something so complicated and sophisticated for clients?

Kelly Eagle  23:19  
So we love a challenge. We tend to thrive in those types of environments. And actually quite a lot of what we're doing is, you know, world first, breaking boundaries, pushing the limits of innovation. So it is something that we tend to build into our process, and we are always looking at how we can improve ways of delivering bigger and better challenging shows. For instance, the New Year's Eve fireworks projection mapping display for the Mayor of London just last year and the year before, which is a really, really brilliant one for us. But on the night, everything comes together. Like there's no fireworks in rehearsals. The day before, you don't have the full team on site, the BBC answer, you know like so actually, in terms of testing and working in a challenging environment like that, we just have to make sure that we're building fail safes and different measures in place to support and just make sure that live event goes as smooth as it can. I think in that example, our projectors were ready to be on a lower brightness level, but we were ready at a moment's notice to double that brightness if we needed to, or to unshatter another projector so that we could work with the light levels. Because until you test alongside the fireworks, it's so tricky to know what's what. So we're now in a much better position, because we've done it two years in a row, but obviously we still make sure we've got these fail safes in place, and it's just really ensuring that you're building the best plan possible for the complex projects you're trying to deliver. When you're in that

Ben Walker  24:50  
rehearsal stage, or even early in the delivery stage, and you find things maybe aren't going quite as well as you planned. What do you do? What are the ways that you change? Change to make sure that you do deliver success.

Kelly Eagle  25:02  
It's a good question. Well, we are very collaborative as a team, and we have a lot of real experts all within house. So we've got everything from kind of your experts and technologists to the technical production team to our interactive artists, developers. So for us, collaboration and just working really closely with our partners and our clients and the brands, making sure that actually we are being as active as possible, as transparent as possible, and we're working towards a common goal. Interesting.

Ben Walker  25:39  
Do you think we're heading towards a fully immersive future that you know, at some point in the near future, all of our campaigns will be immersive by default?

Kelly Eagle  25:53  
Yeah, I think layered technology and interactive digital touch points will be more embedded and be seen throughout more and more of our experiences. Definitely, however, I do really have to challenge that word immersive, because it's one of those words that gets thrown around a lot. And actually it's worth thinking about what the trends and the shifts are in kind of the even the younger generation, you know, being digital, being connected, transforming, almost happening everywhere. For me, it feels like what we should be planning for is just an audience who are more tax heavy than ever, and they expect more than just passive interactions. And that's where I feel that immersive is going to be expected. You know, life is already all around us. Really, where the trends are, where the future seems to be going, is just digital, connected. Everything should be to work as one.

Ben Walker  26:51  
We using digital more and more to enhance real life, rather than as an alternative to it.

Kelly Eagle  26:56  
Yeah, exactly. I mean, the best experience is, don't scream, look at the technology. You know, even when you go, even when we went to a text conference Ise just this year, we saw the industry as catching up to this philosophy and that people want to see invisible or more cohesive technology designed into our already immersive space. We've got this incredible office space meeting room in Farringdon, London, that you come into it, you sit down and as if you're going to have a meeting. And the best part about it is the whole thing comes to life with projection mapping, but it's unexpected, and it's a surprise, and actually, it's creating digital canvases in a world that you already live and breathe in, and bringing it to life in that connected way. That's what feels exciting.

Ben Walker  27:45  
I have to ask you this, do you think that all marketers, or the marketing industry more widely, has got that yet? Do you still think they're too much of an inclination to sort of chase the technology and showing off rather than connecting?

Kelly Eagle  27:59  
Yeah, I think there always has been. The industry is smartening up. You know, people know it's not actually really about if it's technology or if it's analogue. It's just about this physical connection. I think, more than ever, people have digital fatigue, and audiences are craving experiences that force them to slow down, show up, connect in person as well. Audiences today feel more fulfilled with live experiences than purchasing items. So there's clearly an appetite for real world interactions and a collective desire to deeper online social moments that just can't be replaced. So if I can

Ben Walker  28:34  
infer here Kelly, the key future trend for you is less showy technology and more technology as a facilitator that people will see as an interesting surprise, which will augment the reality that we're already, of course, immersed in.

Kelly Eagle  28:50  
Yeah, I think that's exactly it. It's about connected world, merging the physical with the digital, and just pushing the boundaries and creating experiences that talk to people and engage. Kelly Eagle,

Ben Walker  29:03  
thank you very much indeed. Thank you so much. That's all the time we have for this episode of the CIM Marketing podcast. If you enjoyed this episode and find it helpful, please consider supporting the show by leaving a rating and review. It really helps grow our reach. The CIM Marketing Podcast is hosted by me Ben Walker, and produced for CIM by Brindley Walker, no relation. Thanks again for tuning in to the CIM Marketing podcast. We'll catch you next time.

Karen Barnett  29:34  
CIM training courses cover all marketing subjects and provide you with the confidence to drive real results. Choose now from our comprehensive learning portfolio on the CIM website under learn and develop the contents and views expressed by individuals in the CIM Marketing Podcast are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the companies they work with.